An Interview with Lazlo, BlowUpRadio
When I was a new independent artist in 2003 with my first publicly released album “American Road,” I was hungry for opportunities to share my creation with music listeners. I quickly came to learn that commercial radio stations were restricted to major label releases, not something I created in my little apartment on my PC. But I quickly stumbled upon Internet radio, with stations operated by passionate music fans who were not in it for the money.
One of those music fans was Lazlo at BlowUpRadio, a pioneer of Internet Radio at a time when I had recently switched from dial-up to high-speed cable Internet. Lazlo eagerly dug into my CD and aired tracks from it. He invited me to perform in local artist showcases he hosted. He developed a music scene around the music he played, music he liked.
His experience with a New Jersey-based commercial radio station and his frustrations with that experience led him to leave that world and bring his passion and expertise to his own independent online radio operation - not for money, but for the music and the freedom. I interviewed him about the advancing automation of radio and the use of artificial intelligence as a replacement for human DJs at an increasing number of stations.
After DJ’ing at a commercial radio station, you carved out a niche in the new field of Internet radio 25 years ago and have kept at it through the present day. What do you value most about running BlowUpRadio 25 years later? And has your perception of it changed over the years?
Thank you for the kind words. What I value most is the freedom to play what I want and say what I want. One of the things I think a lot of people don't know is most radio stations are very strict. By the time I started working in commercial radio in the mid 90's, stations had been telling DJ's what songs to play in what order for over a decade. At the station I was at it was done by computer. A bunch of songs were programmed into categories (new, 80's, 70's, etc.), and at the top of every hour we'd play say an 80's song, followed by a 70's song, then a new song, and then we'd talk. All of those songs were spit out onto the playlist by a computer, so when I used to say I was a glorified button pusher like George Jetson I wasn't kidding. I'd put a CD in, and hit the button to play it, and repeat. Note, now it is even less work for a DJ, as the computer puts the song files in order and plays them in order, auto-segueing songs.
When we came on to talk, we were told to be around 60 seconds, say everything we played, followed by something off the information sheet. That sheet had 5-10 things we were supposed to promote, like a station sponsored concert or benefit. So there was little time to say anything non-scripted (and I sometimes got an unhappy phone call from the program director when I did say something non-scripted).
Now, at BlowUpRadio.com I use a variation on the radio format program used at that commercial station, but I hand pick every song and swap songs in and out regularly. That is what plays when no one is on the air live, so you won't hear a DJ talking at all.
When I, or someone else, is live on BlowUpRadio.com, we are choosing the songs and what we want to say.
Commercial radio stations are laying off human DJs in favor of AI-generated DJs making algorithmic playlists and occasionally introducing songs. What do you believe this means for the future of radio, Internet radio, or podcasting?
I mean I don't love it, but it is hard to get too angry about when really this is a progression of what started in the late 1970's with stations giving DJ's less control.
If a human isn't part of the decision making progress on what songs to play, the algorithm is likely to play more choices that don't fit. I look at the algorithms on the streaming sites I use. I don't use Spotify or any of those, but I watch videos on Youtube, or listen to songs on Soundcloud (or watch movies on a number of streaming sites that make recommendations). A lot of the recommendations the algorithm gives me are not what I want, and sometimes it even recommends stuff by artists I have already marked as disliking.
So when I hear people say an algorithm could play only AI music, I don't think that's unrealistic if humans aren't involved in the decision making process.
It could also be hacked to play one song over and over again, and if no human is there to intercede, a song could be played on a loop hundreds of times to try to rack up some royalties, or just to prank listeners.
I curate a few playlists on streaming platforms in order to help cross-promote with other artists. I was pitched a song with an AI-generated vocal performance. This was somewhat shocking for me, even though I keep up with the news. Has anyone submitted AI-generated (or partially AI-generated) music to you?
I have received variations of AI involved music. Several where AI did it all, AI did the lyrics, AI did the singing, AI did the music, or some of the music, and AI doing a remix of the song. Those are the ones where people are up front about it. I'm sure some are not being forthcoming with that info. Musicians are also using AI for album artwork and to make music videos. I have posted a few AI music videos on BlowUpRadio.com. I'm not really comfortable with it, and may stop posting AI videos, but I do understand that artists can't afford to make the videos they want and that AI allows them to come close to what they want. Though humans look plastic to me in AI videos.
What do we lose if we lose all human DJ’ing to AI DJ-bots?
Honestly, the biggest thing I worry about, that already has happened with some stations just being a satellite feed of a national broadcast, is local emergency announcements. No one is going to turn on BlowUpRadio.com for emergency announcements, at least I hope not, but we all go to radio or TV when there is an emergency. There have already been cases with some satellite feed stations where the Emergency Broadcast System did not cut in and people did not get necessary information about natural disasters happening in their area.
But it also goes back to what I said above, if you remove human decision making from the process and rely solely on AI, the quality is, in my opinion, going to suffer.
Besides BlowUpRadio, which you have full control over, what other radio institutions do you hope will continue to feature live, human DJ’s?
I would hope all continue to feature human DJ's, even if they do like I do with BlowUpRadio.com, have a human choose the songs and program the stations for when no one is live, and let the live DJ's do what they want. The thought of AI stations does not appeal to me, and I like to think that it wouldn't appeal to anyone once the initial curiosity fades.
Final Thoughts
I'm learning through first-hand experience that artificial intelligence does many things very well, depending on how you use it. AI can make you more creative by suggesting more possibilities. It can also make you less creative if you simply hit a button and run with the content it synthesizes on your behalf. The same is true when AI is used to substitute the intimate human experience between a DJ and their radio audience. If a human is deeply involved in the process and thoughtfully curates a music program for AI to assist with, it could work well.
When big radio companies outsource the entire job of disc jockeying to a bot in order to save payroll, they miss an opportunity to form meaningful social, cultural, and musical connections. Those of us with more eclectic or independent musical tastes are harder to peg with an algorithm and won't be served particularly well that way. Fortunately, humans like Lazlo continue to boldly create what they want to see in the world, regardless of economics.
📰 Check out part 1 of this series - an interview with Motl Didner here.